1 2 3 4 Previous Next 46 Replies Latest reply on Jun 27, 2014 6:06 AM by Noah Salvaterra Go to original post
      • 15. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
        tyler garrett

         

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        • 16. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
          Matt Lutton

          Makes sense to me.

          • 17. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
            Noah Salvaterra
            I have a slight disagreement with Jonathan about 'correcting' other's answers. That can be a difficult/touchy task, requiring way more energy and deference than I personally find worth it...

             

            I'm sincerely confused by this statement, so I'm wondering if I misunderstood.

             

            If a helper is posting incorrect information, they probably don't know it is incorrect, so even if the post itself is unlikely to be found, correcting such errors will help both the person who posted the original question and the helper. That sort of 2 for 1 opportunity would seem to make it well worth some additional effort. In fact, helping the helper is likely more important than any individual question, since without correction they are likely to go right on spreading misinformation. If their feelings are hurt by the fact that they are often called out for posting wrong answers, they may decide to take a break from answering, which wouldn't be the worst thing. Another possibility worth considering, is that when you see a wrong answer it may indicate that there is something that you are the one who is wrong without knowing it. Take it as an opportunity to learn and deference will take care of itself. Allowing for that possibility makes it easier to enter the conversation tactfully, since you can lead with a question or an explanation of your understanding and start up a polite conversation on the topic. If you don't want to engage, the handoff isn't too hard either. Something like this:

             

            Hi Shawn,

            It is interesting that you would say that can't be done. I thought I had seen Jonathan Drummey post a solution to something like this a couple weeks ago, but I can't seem to find the thread. It is possible I'm reading the question differently or thinking of something else. Jonathan, could you help me to understand what is different here?

            N.

             

            That sort of setup would definitely soften the blow when Jonathan rolls in to tell them they are wicked wrong.

             

            It is fine if this isn't something you find important. But since correctness is something that Matthew values (not to mention Jonathan and myself), the calculus might be different.

             

            I suppose I might be wrong though...

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            • 18. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
              Matt Lutton

              ...If their feelings are hurt by the fact that they are often called out for posting wrong answers, they may decide to take a break from answering, which wouldn't be the worst thing.

               

              I agree with this, for sure.  I had to do this, when I was new.  In fact, it could probably be argued that I should've kept my mouth shut more often, or for a longer period of time, in terms of "answering" questions.

               

              Jonathan gently suggested I change some wording, and gave me some handy guidelines to follow.  I believe the particular scenario had to do with reshaping data--I was suggesting that a user reshape their data, and he spoke up and showed me how it wasn't necessary (some table calc wizardry may have been involved).  Lesson learned.  I kept coming back for the knowledge and experience.

              • 19. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                Shawn Wallwork

                Obviously I stand corrected.

                • 20. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                  Matt Lutton

                  I don't disagree with all your points, Shawn--I just wanted to mention that I did try to "sit out" for a while in the beginning.

                   

                  My main take-away from this thread is:  its up to the individual.

                  • 21. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                    Tracy Rodgers

                    Have I ever mentioned how much I love our community? I know we've had our struggles with the technology, etc. but the community--the actual people--are amazing. The fact that we have people who care so much to help others, ask for help and learn from each other makes me proud to say that I am a part of it. Thank you all for making the Tableau Community a community.

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                    • 22. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                      tyler garrett

                      I 100% agree with you Tracy! I'm lucky enough to know a few of the big guns in person . Such a great software, community, and company.

                       

                      Cheers,

                       

                      Tyler Garrett

                      Senior Business Consultant

                      Professional Services

                      Tableau Software

                      • 23. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                        Toby Erkson

                        shawnwallwork wrote:

                         

                        ...

                        Finally: If all the Forum questions were well asked, included a twbx, a desired result, and weren't marked URGENT, then the Jive frictions would probably be easier to overlook. I burned myself out just trying to help folks re-ask/reshape their questions in a way that we could answer them. And now that the question volume is up, and the quality of the 'ask' hasn't improved (probably gone down in my estimation) I just have to close my eyes and move on...

                        Yeah.  People asking questions as if it's a race, trying to put as little info as possible in the quickest amount of time   Then if it's something you think you can answer, you have to ask question after question to pull the details out of them...uhg, just no longer worth it for me.  If they don't have the courtesy to READ THE @!#$%! FORUM GUIDELINES and present a decently written description/actions taken then I tend to move on.  So take your time when asking a question and don't hesitate to go back and edit it with more info or add a reply.

                         

                        < rant soapbox = True >

                        I am tired of these URGENT requests, like you're saving the world from an impending asteroid impact so we should drop everything to help you do your work?  And you know what?  Your "urgent" situation will pass and even if it doesn't get solved you won't lose your job, the company you work for won't go bankrupt, and the Earth will continue spinning.  "Urgent" request tell me the author is lacking in time-management, customer communication and setting expectations.  It tells me they are inexperienced, short-sighted, and can't "think on their feet".  Heros always find alternatives, improvisations, and adaptations.  Become your own hero Mr./Ms. Urgent!  You will gain more respect when you tell your boss that you (take responsibility) couldn't make it work but you succeeded with an alternate process. More yet, even heros sometimes fail.  Learn from it and move on, we're tired of doing your work for you. < /rant >

                        • 24. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                          Joshua Milligan

                          I also second Tracy's statement -- it's one of the best communities.

                           

                          I remember getting corrected (especially by Shawn Wallwork ) a couple of times when I first started interacting regularly.  It was a very good experience for me because I was at the point where I didn't know what I didn't know.  The first time was here: Re: Color of country and state borders in maps?  I remember that one particularly because I was very confident in my answer, but also wrong.  It caused me to realize I don't know everything and have some humility in answering.  The other time I clearly remember is here: Re: geocode by zip instead of city where I gave an answer that was originally marked correct and then Shawn gently corrected it and got the green star.  I learned to slow down and evaluate my answer.

                           

                          The gentle correction of other users is very useful -- it's how we learn and grow together in a community.  And no one is at a place where he/she knows everything.  I may finally know what I don't know -- but I know I don't know it all.  Here's my favorite example: Re: Calculated Field in an Extract-- I expected it to be Lightning Fast- but still slow!!?? I posted an answer that got a "slight correction" by Jonathan Drummey and then his answer got further correction by Robert Morton.  I learned far more from that exchange than if my answer had been marked correct and we'd all just moved on.

                           

                          Definitely it's up to the individual -- and I agree, it's difficult sometimes (especially with just text and emoticons) to strike the right tone.  But please don't shy away from gentle correction.

                           

                          Regards,

                          Joshua

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                          • 25. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                            Matt Lutton

                            While I certainly agree with much of this on some level, and do get frustrated with these requests, I wonder if there isn't a cultural component to this.  Additionally, I generally don't read Forum guidelines immediately when I join--and I could see users signing up, and throwing out their "URGENT" question in desperation.  As experienced users, I also agree with others in that we can do more to help these folks find better ways to get help and/or phrase their questions, particularly if they are a first-time poster.  Obviously, Jive could do more to help us with this as well, and I certainly understand and also feel these frustrations.

                            • 26. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                              Matt Lutton

                              Joshua Milligan wrote:

                               

                              ...It was a very good experience for me because I was at the point where I didn't know what I didn't know.

                               

                              One of my favorite sayings in the tech world.

                              • 27. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                                tyler garrett

                                EXACTLY! A similar quote that I use.

                                 

                                " You don't know until someone shows you "

                                 

                                Cheers,

                                 

                                Tyler Garrett

                                Senior Business Consultant

                                Professional Services

                                Tableau Software

                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                • 28. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                                  allan.walker.0

                                  Noah Salvaterra wrote:

                                   

                                  Even Zen Masters have day jobs.

                                   

                                  Yep.

                                  • 29. Re: Where Have All the Power Users Gone?
                                    Noah Salvaterra

                                    Oh, no! I never even considered the possibility that the urgent questions might have to do with an impending asteroid impact! However unlikely, now I've got that scenario stuck in my head.

                                     

                                    When I see an urgent question, I usually expect a language issue and/or a poorly asked question. Since those are the most likely reasons for a question to fall through the cracks without a response, I expect that was their first experience and that they are back for another go, wondering why people take so long to help in this cursed place. I feel bad that they are having that experience and try to explain what they could do to improve their question. Once I have done that, I'll admit, I then try to run away before being sucked into the 3 pages of back and forth that ends with them saying they figured it out, all they had to do was <insert the very first thing you suggested on page 1, that they told you didn't work>, then marking their own response as correct before disappearing forever. That move is my absolute favorite!


                                    When someone has something they think is a simple question, i.e. one of those easy in excel requests, that have 11 different solutions in Tableau all of which depend on their data structure, they don't know yet what they don't know. So they aren't looking for documentation on how to ask a good question. They don't know how common these questions are. How could they?


                                    If it sounds like I'm getting on a high horse, I assure you I'm not. I get as frustrated as anyone, I've yelled at my computer screen plenty, dogs barking, utter chaos. Slapping my computer shut only to open it again 5 minutes later. I am trying to get better at stepping away when I reach that point, so I really respect people recognizing when it is time to take a break. Spending time with real live people can recharge my batteries in a way that allows me to politely answer questions from folks that had me storming around the room swearing at just days earlier (a bad memory for names and a small collection of avatars helps a bit with that too... lucky for them I guess). I'm still pretty new at this, but I could see needing longer breaks, or even deciding enough is enough.


                                    N.


                                    P.S. I was logged out 3 times while writing this. My browsers are up to date and I cleared my cache yesterday. Not to derail this conversation, but is this just me? I can understand bad questions from forum noobs that don't know any better, but this frustration is something I can't wrap my head around. Is there a reason why this forum uses Jive, or is that just where the pointer was when the wheel stopped spinning? Is there a plan to fix it or a roadmap to transition to something better? I'd ping one of the Tableau folks, but that isn't working for me either.